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Around SBN: NCAA Bracket 2012: The Reaction (Now With Less Angst)

Twelve Days of Pac-12: USC

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Remember kids, the next time you want to write "Trojans" in script, you need to ask USC for permission

Pac-12 map - USC Huskies Golden Bears Cardinal Ducks Beavers Cougars

The Pac-12 is almost here, and to ring in the new conference, we're going to take a look at the schools of the Pac-12 and share some interesting facts and history.  Today we'll look at the University of Southern California.

 

Star-divide

Established: 1880
First Football Season: 1888
Varsity Sports: 21
Football Stadium (built/capacity): Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum (1923/93,607)
Basketball/multipurpose Stadium (built/capacity): Galen Center (2006/10,258)
Football Conference championships (Claimed National Championships): 38 (11)
Total NCAA Team Championships (last): 93 (2011, Men's Tennis)
Most Successful Team Sport: Football (38 conference titles, 11 claimed national championships, 31-16 bowl record, 33 Rose Bowl appearances, numerous NFL and All-American accolades)

Did you know?  USC football has not been known to lose.  The lean years of the 1980s and '90s are largely forgotten by the Trojan fanbase for the winning years of John McKay and Pete Carroll.  In fact, in the 117 year history of Trojan football, it's only registered consecutive non-winning seasons 13 times.  However, it still doesn't ease the pain of last-second defeats.

In 2001, Carroll's first year as head coach, the Trojans were largely playing under the same recruits that former coach Paul Hackett had brought to the LA campus.  As a result, you could understand Trojan faithful skepticism after that first season when the team went 6-5 overall and landed in fifth in the conference.  While the Trojans finally made it back to a bowl game (Las Vegas Bowl) after a two year absence, it was the Oregon and Washington games that USC fans truly regret.  In Oregon, USC had made the #7 Ducks very worried as the game wound down with the Trojans leading 22-21.  In the final 1:05, though, Joey Harrington engineered a 65-yard drive that resulted in Oregon kicking the game-winning field goal with 0:12 remaining in the game.  What hurt about this game for USC was that only minutes before USC had rallied with a TD that resulted in a missed two-point PAT.

(We now pause to remind you that the following game was the famous Stanford-USC game in the Coliseum, the final home game USC would lose until 2007, against Stanford as well.  Oh and two weeks later in 2001, Stanford also broke Oregon's 23-straight home winning streak.)

Following the Stanford loss, the Trojans headed to Seattle where a backup quarterback willed the #11 Huskies back from a 7-point deficit at halftime to tie the game, where with 0:00 remaining Husky kicker John Anderson iced the game with a FG to win 27-24.  It must have been like deja vu for fans of both teams when almost the exact same thing happened in the same stadium only eight years later.

What's important, though, about the 2001 season is that it marked the first time in USC history that the Trojans lost twice in the final 0:12 seconds of play.  The feat was unfortunately repeated for USC nine years later when they lost to Stanford and Washington (again) on last-second field goals, only this time it happened in consecutive weeks.

History with Stanford: Stanford hates USC.

I could have easily ended this section with those three words and no one would have batted an eye.  Traditionally, Stanford fans are a genial, friendly group of people.  Even when Stanford loses a game, they don't hold grudges against the vast majority of their opponents or their fans.  But if there is one school that causes Stanford fans, students, and alumni to collectively lose their *!&# common sense wits, it's USC.  Sorry Cal fans, but you just don't garner the same type or intensity of loathing that USC does.  Everyone dislikes USC outside of the school itself in the conference, but the Stanford-USC relationship is something else entirely.  It's a rivalry that's lasted for well over 70 years, and almost any word but "friendly" or its synonyms could be used to describe it.

To describe the relationship, though, you have to look at the similarities between the two schools.  They're both major research universities on the West Coast.  They're both selective about who they admit (yes, it's true).  They're both private universities with generous alumni.  And they both have very storied histories in athletics.

In almost every sport that the two schools have in common, there is always some sort of animosity between the players, coaches, and fans.  For several years, the Women of Troy routinely battled with the Cardinal for volleyball supremacy in games that would feature multiple Olympians -- on both teams.  The water polo teams (both men and women) have fought some very ugly games in the pool over the years.  Stanford men's tennis team under the direction of Dick Gould was matched by only one other team in the conference -- USC.  In years that baseball is good at USC, the series would have intense pressure for both teams.  Heck, even in years where USC wasn't good the series were still entertaining.

For many Stanford fans, though, the Cardinal-Trojan relationship is defined by football.  There's no shame in admitting that Stanford fans harbor some jealousy towards USC for winning so many times.  It's a feeling shared by many other schools.  Stanford usually justifies it by saying that even though the Trojans win on the field, Stanford wins in the classroom, which may explain the usually dismissive attitude that Stanford alums have towards USC when not talking about football.  When Stanford wins against USC, though, it is a feat that is remembered for years, in part because they happen perhaps with less frequency than fans would like.  It would also explain why four years later Stanford fans are not afraid to point to the 2007 game on a continual basis as the second greatest achievement in Stanford football history, behind only the 12-1 Orange Bowl season (btw, if you want an idea of how strange Stanford's rivalry with USC is, fast-forward to 6:25 of that video to hear some insight as to why these two teams don't like each other contrasted against the fans).

To be fair, both teams have prevented the other from Rose Bowl appearances.  If one needs justification for why both schools dislike each other, they need only to look at the games between the two from 1968-1972 where both teams were dominant and the winner usually deciding the Rose Bowl bid.
  There have also been several instances where Stanford has prevented USC from having the overall #1 ranking in the country at the end of the regular season.  But the vitriol, like I mentioned, goes much further back.  One of the more infamous moments happened during the post-war years when Stanford students featured a pregnant lady on a card stunt with "TROJANS" crossed out.  The Stanford band would have been proud.

It's been said that USC fans don't garner the same kind of "hatred" that Stanford fans have towards USC, and that probably is true.  If you were to rank USC rivals, at best, Stanford would come in either second or third, depending on how you ranked UCLA and Notre Dame.  If Stanford can continue to win on the field against the Trojans, though, and the band continues to hurl insults of the veiled (and not-so-veiled) variety at USC and its alumni, then I expect that this rivalry will become more of what it once was before Pete Carroll.  For the moment, fans of both schools can, if anything, expect one thing when Stanford and USC meet up in any sport:

Fun.

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Comments

Display:

Our recent record may inspire some reciprocal feelings.

Oct 29th.

Circle it on the calendar and make sure you get to the Coliseum. I’ll be there.

If we win that one it will be three in a row at the Coliseum and 4 out of 5 in the series. I bet that will inspire some strong feelings among both fan bases.

by RobberBaron on Jun 27, 2025 5:22 PM PDT reply actions  

As a Trojan

I’d rank the rivalries:

1. Ucla
2. Notre Dame
3. Cal
4. Stanford

This is as a recent alumnus with no familial ties to the school. Hell, I have more Stanford family than USC family. There’s a good change older alumni place Stanford (and ND) higher.

by Lumber Baron on Jun 27, 2025 8:01 PM PDT reply actions  

True as you get older, ND quickly becomes #1

Personally I place Stanford second, UCLA third and Cal fourth. However after the first two it really doesn’t matter.

by ev on Jun 27, 2025 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Funny that

I have never considered Stanford a rival. Competitive, outside of football, sure, but a rival? No. Notre Dame, UCLA, and that’s about it.

"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"

by DC Trojan on Jun 27, 2025 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well if that was the case, it would be really weird to insist that we had to play the Bay Area schools when we were hammering out the Pac-12 schedule. Unless we really just like road trips to San Francisco.

Actually, I might be cool with that. Fewer rivalries, more road trips!

by Lumber Baron on Jun 27, 2025 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Keep in mind the Cali schools have a very long history

more so than other Pac10 schools. For example, USC has played Cal more times than any other program. It was not unusual for the Cali schools to miss playing the NW schools, particularly the Oregon’s and Wazzu in the early years. There is also the whole “natural rival” thing going on, it really does make a difference. Those four schools have stuck together on many issues.

by ev on Jun 27, 2025 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

you learn something new every day

I understand the longevity argument; everyone else must care about those Bay Area weekenders much more than I realized.

"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"

by DC Trojan on Jun 28, 2025 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

there was also

the desire for LESS Northwest trips. But, of course, that wasn’t really something that anyone wanted to come out and say publicly.

Also worth noting that the LA schools have substantial Bay Area alumni bases and vice-versa. So even without the rivalry aspect there’s a meaningful benefit to playing every year where a lot of alumni live.

Mr Pac Ten's Blog - 2007 2008 2009 2010

by MrPacTen on Jun 29, 2025 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

It’s the weekender tradition we like..alumni train with the TMB and the Song Girls, great excuse to visit SF. Stanford is NOT a rival, nor is Cal….even fUCLA is considered our arch-enemy by long time fans and alums, Notre Dame is our one true rival, with a rich tradition that no other conference opponent can come close to.

by 1usctrojan on Jun 30, 2025 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Interesting overview

Perhaps I might have been less surprised to discover that this is a rivalry were I to have taken more of an interest in actual student sports, as opposed to semi-professional sports. Well, “sport” singular, I suppose, since I don’t care about baseball or basketball either, and I don’t recall seeing evidence of vitriol in the late 80s and early 90s when I was an undergraduate.

In any event, it’s always worth learning how other universities’ alumni view yours, if only to see the breadth of disapproval.

"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"

by DC Trojan on Jun 27, 2025 9:04 PM PDT reply actions  

The USC-Stanford rivalry is only going to get better int the coming years.

"you owe it to yourself to be the best in baseball and in life" Pete rose.
F the jets, bills, patriots and cryboys...and sooners, but go phins, longhorns, dodgers and stanford!
Driver of the ryan williams go-kart.

by dolger14 on Jun 27, 2025 9:21 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Agreed.

Especially if we win at the Coliseum again this year. I think winning three times in a row will (finally) get to the trojans.

by reportcard on Jun 28, 2025 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ranking the intra-state rivalries

It’s a tough nut, because of the rich, storied, and extended history between all four schools.

Cal- USC (as mentioned) has the most history in terms of games played, and in the so-called “Golden” age of football, also involved two of the most respected and strongest teams (yes, at one time Cal was actually relevant in football - hard to believe but true).

USC - Stanford have the whole private school alignment, and the north-south thing, much the same way Cal - Ucla have the public school & n-s thing. Plus, Ucla being the overly precocious and somewhat annoying younger sib who steals identity and claims it as their own adds to this antagonism.

Then, of course, there are the geographic rivals. Cal-Stanford & USC-Ucla. Familiarity does breed contempt, after all. And, at least in terms of Cal & Stanford, there is the rivalry extending well past athletics into the academic realm, where both universities have, almost since their inception, been respected as among the top six in the nation (if not the world).

My point (if indeed I have one), is that my perception is that the California schools share a complex interconnected 4-way rivalry with each other, wherein one can makle arguments that the difference in animosity is very small, and varies depending on a lot of criteria - including who each is playing in that week.

Personally, I find the unique nature of this to be a huge plus.

And in closing, I hate you all.

"Thanks. Go Bears!" - Ernest Owusu: the next great Cal DE

by SoCal Oski on Jun 28, 2025 9:27 AM PDT reply actions  

oh, spiteful

Further evidence of rivalry.

"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"

by DC Trojan on Jun 28, 2025 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

To LSJU and UCLA

They’ve been spoiling our fun for longer, please get in line.

"Our hearts shall sing and our voices ring for the dear old Blue and Gold!"

by Joe Bandsmen on Jun 30, 2025 5:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Doesn't that speak more to a lack of competence?

Even a 4-7 Stanford team managed to beat a national championship-contending USC team. And it didn’t require triple overtime to do it, either.

by RedOscar on Jun 30, 2025 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

eh… Typical Stanford “masters of the universe” overstatement. John David Booty had a broken middle finger in his throwing hand and threw four interceptions in the second half.
End of story

"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?

by M. AGRIPPA on Jun 30, 2025 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

this was a suggestion that dating back the 1920s Cal and USC have been dueling, everyone else is late to the party—not a statement on current events

"Our hearts shall sing and our voices ring for the dear old Blue and Gold!"

by Joe Bandsmen on Jun 30, 2025 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I guess you could call Stanford a rival to USC, but not the #1.

Maybe in some other sports but never football for me, yes they have had some really great games in the past but bragging rights ? Since they are the only private schools in the pac it could be that but I have never been motivated to get up for the Stanford—USC FB game, having run a very successful Sports Bar we never look for large crowds only in the UCLA game. I have always in tennis rank Stanford, USC and ucla the top teams and if you look at ncaa championships in tennis they have the highest wins. I have always told my students that getting a scholarship to Stanford or USC is the breaker over other schools (better alumni), I used to put ucla in that mix until Glenn Bassett retired. USC leads in tennis championships 19, stanford 17, ucla 16, oh and by the way I feel Glenn was the overall best coach in teaching the game.


Who--What--Slim Shady----the ncaa is after all the BS they are lying out----and just remember they will rewrite history every seven years after the fact.

by so.cal.native1952 on Jun 28, 2025 3:11 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

I'll give this thread credit for one thing: No ruins

And I have one question. Outside of those on this blog, are there any Stanford fans? I have met many Stanford alums, but most of them seen to be quite ambivalent or even detached from The Farm.

"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin
U feeling Loco?

by M. AGRIPPA on Jun 29, 2025 10:09 AM PDT reply actions  

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